For some stupid reason the comments section is not working for me at the moment, so the idea of this post is to respond to the comments in the last one.
@Franco - Your'e probably right about Shadowsun. The reason I wanted to run it as an Enclave list is to get the Talisman. Next tourni I know I'll be playing at least 2 good Demon players and I thought this would help. However, I guess the 2+ cover save will help just as well against psychic shooting.
@Melvin. It's OK to run Shadowsun with Farsight as long as its and Empire list rather than an Enclave list.
@Arrgyle - Check the wording on the Enclave Supplement - it says p88
"Any character in your army that may select Signature Systems may not select from those in [the Empire book] but may instead select from the [Enclave Book]."
Bodyguards are not characters so the prohibition on taking Sig Systems from the Empire Book doesn't apply to them. Accordingly the Bodyguards are drawn from the Empire Book and can take Empire Sig Systems.
The pods are important. Because of the stupid FAQ introduced last year, a unit can only kill models up to the maximum range if its weapons. So if there are only 18" weapons in the bomb, and it drops in 17" away from a unit of boyz, it can only kill those models within 18", which would wast a lot of shots. However, if there is one weapon in the unit with a longer range i.e. the Missile Pod, then the 18" Pulse Carbines can kill everything up to 36" away. This is pretty crucial, as you want to keep the bomb at max distance to void being charged. Stupid rule, but it is what it is!
The pods also make the bomb more flexible, allowing it to reach out and "touch" more distant targets. This is important, because the bomb (after the Skyrays shoot their missiles) is the only real shooting unit in the army. It needs to be as flexible as possible.
Sorry, but I disagree about the Sniper rounds as well (!) - the last thing I want anybody to think is that the Kroot are a threat. The list has very weak scoring. The fewer guns being turned on the Kroot the better.
EYIG
So yeah, doing some checking, and though I think you are right RAW at first glance, I think you are hitting some loophole with the bodyguard taking sig systems from empire while running an Enclave list.
ReplyDeleteCorrect they are not characters, and yes they can select from Sig Systems, and your quote is correct from the enclaves book.
"Accordingly the Bodyguards are drawn from the Empire Book and can take Empire Sig Systems." - All Enclave units are drawn from the Empire book, but have exceptions...
I think this is where I am seeing the difference:
"A Farsight Enclaves army is chosen
using the army list presented in Codex:
Tau Empire. It also has a series of
supplemental rules (presented below)
that can be used in addition to the
material found in Codex: Tau Empire.
Note that you can only use the options
from one codex supplement when
choosing your army."
The last sentance there seems to be the key for me, and although I may not giving the best of arguements, I would be very careful about this and check to see if it is legal with any tourny I went to. I really do not think it is.
As for the pods, aye, I see the point of them, only I think when you start getting into it you will find that generally alll your plasma will shoot at one thing, fusion at one or two things and gun drones maybe at something else (most of the time I'm betting they shoot at the same target as the plasma). Fusion argueably doesn't need the extra range (tanks MCs/whatnot) the plasma would give extra range to the drones (maybe not enough!), so the case could be made for just one MPod suit in the group. IF that is your only concern, but I do get the point of having them be able to shoot across the table also with this as the primary shooting element of your army.
Don't think that the sentence you point to is relevant at all - its talking about using more than one supplement, not a supplement and a Codex. having said all that, Ive a checked wit the TO and he's happy!
ReplyDeleteTake Your copy of Codex: Tau Empire and flip it over.. look at the bottom center.. "A Supplement for Warhammer:40k" Right on the Empire codex. IT IS bad wording on GWs part I will give you that. Besides that paragraph begins a section, is ONLY referring to two things of note in the paragraph, a little reading comprehension would tell me that those two things are the subject being referred to in that final sentence.
ReplyDeleteNow this is obviously striking a nerve with me so i will make this my last post on the matter, your blog let you have final say. But can I refer you to your Hobby Killers post from November of last year?
Sorry mate, didn't mean to wind you up. I'm afraid I can't resist a rules argument, comes of being a lawyer IRL I guess! However, you make a very good point referring me back to the Hobby Killer article.....if ever there was a rules exploit this is it! So while we can agree to disagree on RAW - I agree that RAI, I'm wrong!
ReplyDeleteWhich begs the question - just because I can use the list - should I?
EYIG
"The pods are important. Because of the stupid FAQ introduced last year, a unit can only kill models up to the maximum range if its weapons. So if there are only 18" weapons in the bomb, and it drops in 17" away from a unit of boyz, it can only kill those models within 18", which would wast a lot of shots. However, if there is one weapon in the unit with a longer range i.e. the Missile Pod, then the 18" Pulse Carbines can kill everything up to 36" away. This is pretty crucial, as you want to keep the bomb at max distance to void being charged. Stupid rule, but it is what it is!"
ReplyDeleteThe rule seems stupid because you're not reading it correctly. Given how you like WAAC shenanigans in your lists, I'm not surprised ,seeing how you bend every rule your way looking for the tiniest loophole. If you were playing me, you'd have a very long day in court instead of playing the game as intended. But enough of my personal views on your BS 'tactics' and list writing, let's get to the meat quoted above. First, let's agree that the Pulse Carbine, Fusion Gun, SMS and HYMP weapons have different Strength and AP values or special rules. Thus, according to pg 19 bottom right hand corner: " Mixed Wounds", these systems form their own group within the wound pool. The Mixed Wound rule then states EACH group is resolved separated using the normal wound allocation before moving on to the next group. The limitations /special rules of the weapon systems, and most importantly in this case, the RANGES, apply to each group separately, as per the FAQ instructions which paraphrased, means you can't allocate wounds outside your system range. Thus - you CANNOT have a Fusion gun allocate wounds 36" away. The FAQ limitation applies as you resolve each group of different weapon systems one at a time. Again - what makes them different? ANY difference in Strength, AP or even Special rule causes that weapon to be placed in its own group. You can't have the weapon systems in your list all bunched together in one massive group for wound allocation.