So, after 7 games with the Cult, what are my thoughts?
First, I really enjoy playing the army, it’s dynamic, tactical, and surprising. I’m sure as I play more games I’ll discover quirks and tricks that will just add to the tactical depth of the army. It’s exactly the sort of list I enjoy. However, it has some limitations in match ups, the complexity and high model count make it slow to play and. finally (and most importantly), I’ve not yet nailed the list.
One match up I’m concerned with is intercepting Tau. I haven’t played it yet (nobody at the club really plays Tau … other than me!), but I see it as a real problem if I don’t get first turn. Next are death stars. The last game at the weekend showed me that volume of wounds is simply not the answer. The worst/best death stars are effectively un-killable through normal attacks. To engage them you need something more… and the GSC just doesn’t have it without allies. I think the only answer is to play around the death star, feeding it small units, and play the mission.
I could of course use allies. A culexus, or sisters of silence in an imperial bunker with an escape hatch might work, but that would take up all 3 detachments, but more importantly it just doesn’t feel right. Another more intriguing option is to ally in Imperial guard, with some Wyverns. The obvious counter to GSC is to castle up and bubble wrap more important units. If there were 12 ignores cover, shred. small blasts coming down on clumped up units, that would be interesting. Versus death stars it gives you the option of trying to snipe out librarians or apothecaries (Wyverns are barrage weapons). If I understand the guard codex correctly (not my strong suite) I can get a Command Squad, 10 Vets and 3 Wyverns for 315 points. Another option would be the Artillery Formation in the Kauyon book, but it’s more expensive points wise. The alternative might be Space Marine quad mortars, they’re cheaper (300pts for 3 with a Techmarine and 5 scouts) and have the alternate shot profile for taking down vehicles and void shields. However, again it doesn’t’ seem right. Combine that with the fact they’re forge world, and “experimental”. While ITC will allow them, we don’t play ITC very often in the UK.
The complexity of play is also a challenge. I will get used to the rules etc. with practice, but the sheer number of models makes it slow. At the weekend I brought along 3 segmented plastic trays with 6 segments in each tray. I put a unit in each segment. That allowed me to keep track of which unit was in reserve, and which was dead. However, where if fell down was in keeping track of which model was in which unit, and how many were dead so I knew what I could bring back when coming on from ongoing reserve. I can improve efficiency here by numbering each unit, but I think I need a sub compartment in each segment to separate the dead from the living….!
As for speed of play, I was able to finish all bar one game in the 3hrs allocated. The one I didn’t finish was against the demonic incursion list, who also had loads and loads of little units. The thing that takes time is the constant on an off the board. I need to try movement trays.
And finally the list. After a lot of thought I’ve narrowed it down to 2 options – one with double Subterranean Uprising, and the other with guard allies.
First the Double SubT
Cult Insurrection Detachment
Brood Cycle
5 Acolytes
5 Acolytes
5 Acolytes
5 Metamorphs
10 Neophytes.
10 Neophytes.
18 Purestrain Genestealers
Command
Patriarch (Level 2),
Magus (level 2), Crouchling.
Subterranean Uprising 1
Primus
5 Acolytes, 2 Rock Saws
5 Acolytes, 2 Rock Saws
5 Acolytes,
5 Acolytes
5 Metamoprphs, 3 Claws, 2 Lashes,
5 Metamoprphs, 3 Claws, 2 Lashes,
5 Metamoprphs, 3 Claws, 2 Lashes,
Subterranean Uprising 2
5 Acolytes,
5 Acolytes,
5 Acolytes,
5 Acolytes
5 Metamoprphs, 3 Claws, 2 Lashes,
5 Metamoprphs, 3 Claws, 2 Lashes,
5 Metamoprphs, 3 Claws, 2 Lashes,
CAD
Magus (level2)
Primus
10 Neophytes.
10 Neophytes.
The idea here is that I have 14 units rolling 2d6 on the Cult Ambush table, maximising the chance of getting a 6. Six of them(the 5 man Acolyte units) are “throw away” units for getting in the way, soaking up overwatch, and general utility work. Even a 5 man unit of Hybrids is pretty nasty against run of the mill targets, particularly if they have Furious Charge from the Icon Ward and Hatred from a nearby Primus. Better still is casting “Might from Beyond” on them. If you can all of this one the one unit (and I managed it 2 or 3 times at the weekend), you have a 40pt unit throwing 25 S6 rending attacks on the charge, rerolling to hit. Pretty nasty.
The other 8 units in the SubTs have specific jobs. The Rock Saws go after knights and heavy armour, and the metamorphs go after high initiative infantry, high toughness units, and light armour. I’ve cut down the number of Rock Saws to 4, and reduced the squad size to 5. I don’t expect to see many lists that have more than 2 knights. If I have one Primus in each Rock Saw unit I have a good chance of getting at least one 6 on the Cult Ambush table. Usually, one unit with 2 rock saws (rerolling because of hatred) is enough to kill a knight. However, because they kill at initiative 1, the Knight still gets it’s stomps, so the unit is usually wiped out. No point in 7 man unit dieing when a 5 man unit does the job.
I’m less sure about the Metamorphs. I’ve tried to tool out each unit to deal with most infantry threats – lashes to get hits in first against elder, and claws to put wounds on tougher targets. However, another option would be to tool out separate units to do separate jobs – i.e. 3 units with lashes and 3 units with claws. Again, having the Primus would allow me some control over which units have the best chance of rolling a 6. So if I was trying to kill bikes I would put the Primus in a unit with claws to increase their chance of rolling a 6. Alternatively, if I needed to kill warp spiders, I would put them in the lash units and try and roll a 6 for them. Thoughts?
I’ve also kept the big Genestealer unit. I was in two minds about this. I’m not persuaded that Genestealers can justify their extra points when compared to more Hybrids. However, I’ve kept them in because I found at the weekend that people were terrified of them, and it had an effect on their deployment and play. It was also useful to have a unit with a big footprint, for pulling off multicharges, and blocking movement etc. Plus when the Patriarch rolls “Ambush Leader” for his warlord trait …. it’s golden!
Finally, I’ve kept the CAD. I felt that having 2 units rolling 3d6 on the Cult Ambush table, and 2 hatred bubble was worth it, as were the extra warp charge dice and 2 more rolls on the Broodmind table.
The other Option is with guard allies
Cult Insurrection Detachment
Brood Cycle
5 Acolytes
5 Acolytes
5 Acolytes
5 Metamorphs
10 Neophytes.
10 Neophytes.
17 Purestrain Genestealers
Command
Patriarch (Level 2),
Magus (level 2), Crouchling.
Subterranean Uprising
Primus
5 Acolytes, 2 Rock Saws
5 Acolytes, 2 Rock Saws
5 Acolytes,
5 Acolytes
5 Metamoprphs, 3 Claws, 2 Lashes,
5 Metamoprphs, 3 Claws, 2 Lashes,
5 Metamoprphs, 3 Claws, 2 Lashes,
CAD
Magus (level2)
Primus
10 Neophytes.
10 Neophytes.
Guard Allied Detachment
Command Squad
10 Man Veteran Squad
3 Wyverns
So more or less swapping out the second SubT for the guard allies. The key unit is the Wyverns. As discussed above – I found that people want to castle up and bubble wrap against the Cult, to protect against charging out of reserve. The Wyverns will punish that tactic, allowing me to hit clumped up units hard, and sweep away bubble wrap. They also give me an option against some death star, allowing me to snipe out key characters.
However, my concern is that they take too many points away from the army’s core.
So, comments please (bearing in mind I’m ultimately building a list for the LVO using ITC format)
· Have any Cult players worked out what to do when going 2nd against intercepting Tau?
· Has anybody used movement trays? My concern is that you lose all flexibility in deploying units, other than in the set “shape” dictated by the movement tray. Not sure it’s an answer.
· Are 2 five man units of Hybrids with Rock Saws enough (bearing in mind I have a potential 7 rolls on Broodmind to get summoning, so I have a reasonable chance of summoning extra Rock Saws if I need them)?
· What would be the optimum load out for 6 five man units of metamorphs?
· Is the big unit of Genestealers worth it?
· Is the 2nd CAD worth it for the extra Primus and the extra Magus?
· What do we think about the Wyverns? Better to stick with the double SubT list? What about the other options?
Hey I got ya bud. Most of my information will be regurgitated from more experienced players on forums around the net, but I'll do what I can!
ReplyDelete1- if you're going second, place the First Curse detachment fairly aggressive but still in cover. It has a good chance of actually surviving a turn - then just move forward and charge the next turn. Hurts but not an instant loss :)
2- not a fan of movement trays. You'll want to hug cover so often that it can be a pain otherwise.
3- well, that depends on the rest of the list. Generally speaking I prefer 7 or 8 man units however. With hybrids this gives overwatch a bit of chaff before eating into your heavy weapons (especially with flamers). As for how many units- I prefer to fully fill out my Subterranean Uprising to maximize Cult Ambush bonuses.
4- again, it depends on what you want them to do. Whips can hit high initiative models, talons are good all rounders, and claws can help with armor if you don't want Rock Saws or abberants. I prefer a mix of mostly talons and about 30% whips, leaving armor to the saws.
5- If you mean First Curse, I think so. It gives your Warlord a safe spot, and is an incredible Distraction Carnifex that could easily strip a knight in seconds.
5-it is worth it if you specifically go for a summoning list. Unfortunately since summoned units snapfire on arrival (FAQ) these lists have been fairly nerfed.
7- I've heard good things about Wyverns but actually prefer Tyranid allies. As you noticed, GSC is hurt by castles, deathstars, and air superiority. An allied CAD or Hive Fleet Detachment allows you to bring flyrants and mawlocs. (Cult ambush was FAQ'd to synergize with allies)
Flyrants provide psychic dice and fire support, mawlocs handle deathstars, cult engages and scores. Lists like this have already won a few minor tournaments.
Good luck bud, have fun!
Thanks for this. Sorry its taken a while to respond. Having played quite a few games now, since this post, I think I agree with pretty much everything you say, with one exception. I've found that Claws are way better than Talons. Putting hits on units is easy - WS5 from Talons and hatred from the Primus. However, often I find that converting them into wound is the tricky bit when you're S$. S6 makes a difference. Currently I'm running 10 man units, 5 claws 2 whips and 3 talons.
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